Transcript of ABC interview with Professor Gordon Flake from the Perth US-Asia Centre
In a subtle move Trump is warning the Labor Party Government that wanton, destructive population transfers involving a close ally are being watched.
Samantha Donovan: The Trump administration has instructed the US Embassy in Canberra to gather data on crimes committed by migrants in Australia. The directive was apparently sent to several other Western nations too. Observers here say the move doesn’t pose a risk to Australia’s sovereignty but is another significant development in US immigration policy. Julia Bergen prepared this report.
Donald Trump: When politicians talk about immigration reform they usually mean the following. Amnesty, open borders, lower wages.
Julia Bergin: Immigration has always been at the heart of Donald Trump’s presidential pitch. He’s made it clear he wants it wound right back.
Donald Trump: Immigration reform should mean something else entirely. It should mean improvements to our laws and policies to make life better for American citizens.
Julia Bergin: And now the President’s anti-immigration agenda is going global. The White House has issued a directive to United States Embassy staff around the world ordering them to gather data on the quote, crimes and human rights abuses committed by people of a migration background. Posting on X earlier this week, the Department of State said it wanted to help Western nations solve what it described as a global crisis.
Department of State: Mass migration poses an existential threat to Western civilisation and undermines the stability of key American allies. Today the State Department instructed US embassies to report on the human rights implications and public safety impacts of mass migration.
Julia Bergin: That instruction went to US embassy staff in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the United Kingdom and Western nations across Europe. Reports in nine newspapers today quote a senior State Department official as saying the administration wants to warn its friends about the perils of migration. That means things like political unrest and economic instability. But Green Senator David Shoebridge says this is no friendly gesture by the Trump administration.
David Shoebridge: This is a really dangerous export of the Trump administration’s right wing anti-migrant policies. And previously, at least there was some restraint from the United States about openly interfering with their allies’ domestic policies. But the US is not even pretending to hide this anymore.
Julia Bergin: Senator Shoebridge says the US is trying to manipulate other countries’ policies on race and migration, including Australia.
David Shoebridge: The US vice president has said that he wants to use US power, US trade power, US diplomatic power, US economic power to lecture and force the United States allies to change their immigration policies, change other domestic policies. You know, there’s a clear pattern here. This isn’t just gathering information for curiosity’s sake. This is to weaponise the information against the United States’ own allies.
Julia Bergin: In a written statement, the federal government says it hasn’t discussed migration with the Trump administration. That’s despite media briefings in Washington suggesting US diplomats will ramp up pressure on Canberra. Professor Gordon Flake from the Perth US-Asia Centre says it’s got nothing to do with Donald Trump’s concern for foreign governments and everything to do with US domestic politics. This
Gordon Flake: is not them asking Australia and Canada and the UK to provide the US data. This is directing the US embassy to gather that data. Now, whether they’ll be done in a rigorous way or an accurate way, obviously one has plenty of cause for doubt because that’s not what they’re interested in. They’re interested in fomenting fear, fomenting division, because that’s something they ran on.
Julia Bergin: Gordon Flake says it’s not unusual for foreign governments to report on these sorts of things. He says the problem is, it’s not really reporting. It’s about creating a story to tell back in the US.
Gordon Flake: I don’t think these people are particularly interested in data for data’s sake. They’re interested in the narrative.
Julia Bergin: Do you feel like this is impinging on Australia’s sovereign capacity and sovereign rights?
Gordon Flake: Not really. This is the US State Department directing US embassies to gather data. If it was demanding the Australian government to gather and provide data, that would be a different story altogether. But the US embassies, they gather data on lots of things. That’s part of what diplomatic posts do. I don’t see anything yet at this point that I would consider to be an impingement on Australian sovereignty. But it is just one further example of what is at the core of this administration’s approach.
Samantha Donovan: Professor Gordon Flake from the Perth US Asia Centre, Julia Bergin with that report.
